TG .........................................................

Good site and great concept company. I just love the idea of getting energy from the earth.

You know I do a bit of TA ... so I have to politely suggest caution here ... I see the SP has surged well in the last few months ... normally I'd look for another rally about here but the recent chart form looks down ... a break of 98c should be devastating IMHO. I want to trade this one so will pop in from time to time ... you know where to find me.
Regards

Hi Guys

The old LOOK forum is now for all risky shares!

http://www.investorshub.com/boards/board.asp?board_id=1520

Closed loop pressure:

From the Soultz project in France ....

"In the heating plant at the surface, it was kept in a closed system at a pressure of about 10 bar. "


For initial fracture stimulation:
"A large-scale fracture system in the granite was created by using the frac method: More than 100,000 m³ water was injected at pressures of up to 150 bar at rates of up to 80 L/s "

Location:
http://www.bgr.de/b1hydro/index.html?/b1hydro/fachbeitraege/b199802/e_lztest_hdr.htm


.... Paradox

Mr Sharetrader, I don't know the answer to the ongoing pressure requirements, the first recovery well is being drilled in parallel with fracture stimulation.
I suppose the second recovery well will be drilled if the fracture stimulation is successful, the flow rates are acceptable, and they decide to proceed with the pilot plant

.... Paradox

Trying to figure basically how this all works.
Hybanero have reached the minimum target depth for the injection well. Which
must be at the level of the granite layers .
Hydraulic stimulation involves up to 9000 PSI pressurised water applied over a long time to open or fracture the granite, which later will allow water to flow through and heat up.
Question 1
What pressure is needed for normal operating conditions once the recovery wells are drilled.?
or does the closed loop system drive itself?
Question 2
when are the recovery wells expected to be drilled.?
do they need 2 recovery wells?

Heated water passes through a heat exchanger at the surface which in turn heats another type of liquid with a lower boiling point .
Which means it converts to steam more quickly. Pressurised steam drives the turbines to generate electricity.
Thats basically how I understand it anyone help with those questions .

I think GDY may be onto something big in time .Speculative to some degree but I like the basis of what their out to acheive
and if Origin etc have shown some interest must mean they consider it seriously.
Good work Top Gun setting up this web page

$120 Giddy Up! eom.

Paradox like to see you there! http://www.dab-online.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=198
All welcome.

TG

FROM oZ (Redstar)

I have set up a forum for us to use relating to ASX companies/issues.

Register it allows us to go in a little more depth on companies and gives us time to respond to questions asked...

I have invited NAB and Commsec groups, the more people involved, the richer the analysis becomes.

Here is the address, it's new so register and post your questions or announcements.

http://www.dab-online.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=198

Renewable Energy Certificates ....

I don't fully understand how this works - correct me if I am wrong - but it seems to me the Renewable Energy Certificates offset the cost of producing electricity from renewable sources like so ....

Government regulator:
http://www.greenhouse.gov.au/markets/mret/index.html

* For each MWhr produced, a renewable energy certificate is issued.

* These are tracked financial instruments which can be traded on the open market. They fluctuate in price according to demand for certificates from non-renewable electricity suppliers who have not met their mandatory 2% target set by the government and need to buy REC's.

* Price projections are that REC's may fluctuate in value between $30 and $40 per MWhr
REC Price Projections:
http://www.greenhouse.gov.au/markets/mret/mma/pubs/3_projects.pdf

* Electricity generation from some renewable energy sources can range in cost up to double the cost of non-renewable sources. The REC's give these expensive producer's 50% or more rebate to make their production cost competitive.

* HDR from the Cooper Basin is expected to be cost competitive with non-renewable sources without any REC support ($40/MWhr). Trading REC's at $30 to $40 will almost neutralize the cost of production.

... sounds to good to be true

..... I must be wrong

....... Paradox

Resolving line losses over long distances - they have the technology ....


A company called ABB from Zurich, Switzerland ( http://www.abb.com/ )has developed HVDC (high-voltage direct current) low line-loss transmission over long distances.

850Km transmission contract in China:
http://www.geni.org/energy/library/industry_links/ABB/ABBhighvoltagechinaPL.html
April 12, 1999– ABB has won an order to supply two converter stations for a 3,000-megawatt high-voltage direct current (HVDC) power link to transmit electricity from the Three Gorges hydropower plant in central China to the coastal city of Shanghai and surrounding area. The order is valued at more than US$ 340 million and was awarded by the state-owned China Power Grid Development Co. The 850-kilometer power link – China’s largest - is scheduled to come into commercial operation in 2003.

August 15 - Beijing, CHINA – A senior official from State Grid Corporation said today that ABB’s high-voltage direct current power transmission link between the Three Gorges dam and Changzhou passed all trials and is ready to set a new world record for power levels of 3,300 megawatts.


Similar again, India - link eastern & southern grids:
http://www.tdworld.com/ar/power_switzerlandindia_abb_wins/index.htm
ABB (Zurich) has won a US$48 million order in India to design, build and install a new power transmission system that will strengthen the country's power supply. The order, signed with Power Grid Corp. of India Ltd., is to supply a 500-MW high-voltage direct current (HVDC) system that will connect two regional grids, which feed power to millions of consumers in India.

Similar again, USA - Oregon to California:
http://tdworld.com/ar/power_ladwp_awards_abb/index.htm
3/7/2002
ABB (Zurich, Switzerland) won a US$ 93 million order to refurbish a high-voltage direct current (HVDC) transmission system to increase the reliability of electricity supply in California.

Under the terms of the contract awarded by the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power (LADWP; Los Angeles, California, U.S.), ABB will design, manufacture and install a 3,100-megawatt system to overhaul the current installation located at Sylmar near Los Angeles. ABB will deliver new converter transformers, HVDC thyristor valves and control and protection equipment.




ABB (www.abb.com) is a leader in power and automation technologies that enable utility and industry customers to improve performance while lowering their environmental impact. The ABB Group of companies operates in around 100 countries and employs about 135,000 people.

TG - I have found my way in ...

It looks like there are at least two other player's in the game - don't know how successful they are so far, dont know how much room there will be in the market - but I guess there are already heaps of oiler's, and as oil get's more expensive in the comming decades, HDR will be a lot more cost competitive ....



Hot Rock Energy Pty Ltd:
http://news.ogtoday.com/archives/0211/022411/022611b13.html
Tuesday, 26 November, 2002
Longreach applies for exploration licence
Sydney, 26 November, OGT—Longreach Oil has lodged an application for an Exploration Licence for Group 8 Minerals - Geothermal substances with the Mining Registrar in Sydney.
The application was lodged jointly by Longreach Oil Limited and Hot Rock Energy Pty Ltd.


South Australian Geothermal Energy Pty Limited
Tuesday, 27 February, 2001
http://news.ogtoday.com/archives/0102/012502/012702b09.html
A joint venture involving Beach, the CSIRO and South Australian Geothermal Energy Pty Limited (SAGE) was named by the South Australian Government as one of three successful applications for the State's first geothermal exploration licences.


... Paradox

More research (some going back a few years)

http://www.geothermie.de/gte/gte22-23/artikel%205/text2.htm

weiter = NEXT PAGE!!

"The resulting estimate of energy available for electricity generation was 23 million petajoules (1 petajoule = 1015 joules). This is the energy equivalent of 4 trillion barrels of oil. The current yearly consumption rate of energy in Australia is 0.5 billion barrels of oil, equivalent to 3000 petajoules (ERDC, 1995). "

Also

http://www.isr.gov.au/netenergy/aen/aen5/5rocks.html

'A nine hole system would give us access to something like 4 cubic kilometres of granite at the Hunter site,' Dr Wyborn said. 'There is approximately 225 cubic kilometres of granite at that site with enough thermal energy contained there to provide 75% of NSW's electricity for 50 years.'

---Still looking into Hot Rock Energy Pty Ltd (HRE)
--- GOT IT!!
<<<In March 1995, Hot Rock Energy Pty Ltd (HRE), was established as a research and development corporation by The Broken Hill Proprietary Company Limited, Western Mining Corporation Ltd, Halliburton Energy Services Group,Baroid Drilling Fluids Inc., Bovis Australia, University of NSW, Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO) Division of Petroleum Resources,Fallon Group, Cape Range Ltd, Tasman Research Pty Ltd,Wilkie Teape & Co, Hamilton Agriculture Pty Ltd, Energy Australia, and Earth Energy Pty Ltd.>>>


Also
http://www.greenhouse.gov.au/markets/mret/pubs/11_geo.pdf

STATUS OF THE GEOTHERMAL INDUSTRY IN AUSTRALIA
http://iga.igg.cnr.it/pdf/0559.PDF

TG

European Hot Dry Rock activities
Hello, anyone out there????


http://www.geothermie.de/egec-geothernet/prof/hdr/european_hdr_activities.htm
See:-

The HDR / HFR Pilot Plant at Soultz-sous-Forêts, France (2002)

http://www.geothermie.de/presse/soultz/51/hdr-51main.htm



TG

Top 20 and more Links:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/08/06/1060145724051.html

TOP 20 SHAREHOLDERS - Ordinary Fully Paid Shares
Period No 9 Ended 31 March 2003

Current Shareholder Shares

1 Metasource Pty Ltd 10,443,392 31.54%

http://www.metasource.com.au/NR/exeres/D8CF7A69-3ABE-4B26-83E7-CCB473D62C3A,frameless.htm

Metasource Pty Ltd is Woodside Energy Ltd's sustainable energy company.

Through selected investment, Metasource will profitably support the development of emerging technologies and the application of sustainable energy solutions for meeting Australia's future needs.

2 CVC Reef Limited 2,786,873 8.42%

http://www.cvcltd.com.au

CVC, established under the MIC scheme in 1985, is one of Australia's oldest and most successful managed investment companies.

3 The Australian National University 2,608,186 7.88%
4 Commonwealth Custodial Services Limited 1,000,000 3.02
% 5 Mr Martin Albrecht 950,000 2.87%
6 Dr Lambertus de Graaf 946,915 2.86%
7 Dr Prame Chopra 710,190 2.14%
8 Dr Doone Wyborn 695,190 2.10%
9 Pro-Vision Australia Pty Ltd 630,000 1.90%
10 RBC Global Services Australia Nominees Pty Limited 520,000 1.57%
11 Paksian Pty Ltd 364,600 1.10%
12 ANZ Nominees Limited 287,500 0.87%
13 Ms Siobhan Marie Downe 250,000 0.75%
14 Mr Warwick George Morris 250,000 0.75%
15 Mr Allan Trachel & Mrs Helen Trachsel 250,000 0.75%
16 Transgrid 250,000 0.75%
17 Transmere Pty Ltd 250,000 0.75%
18 Mr Robert John Flew 240,000 0.72%
19 Mr Neil Arthur Galwey 240,000 0.72%
20 TBIC Pty Ltd 200,000 0.60%

TOTAL TOP 20 Shareholders 23,872,846 72.10%



Posted by: Paradox Aug 7 2003 9:30:26:670PM
Reply to post # by Go to Post #

Humour me for a moment - hypothetically speaking ... I'm no expert in this - but it if we take the following figures to estimate the value of the resource per share on it's equivalent value as oil ....

Assume field capacity of the resource is equivalent to 50 billion barrels of oil

Assume value after extraction costs & tax = $5 per barrel

% ownership of the resource = 100%

Value to the company = 50B x $5 = $250B

Number of shares on issue = 38M

Value of resource per share = $250B/38M = $6,579

..... seems to me share price could easily make $5 ... but of course it has to even get off the ground yet.

Progress Report on Habanero #1

Over pressure = unexpected help in extracting the heat energy..


http://www.geodynamics.com.au/IRM/content/05_investor/05.1.html

TG

ABC TV Special
http://www.abc.net.au/quantum/info/hotroctx.htm

TG

The Geodynamics basics, a must read.

The operation consists of drilling two wells down to around 5km into the ground. A heat exchanger is then formed at ~5km under the surface where the temperature of the granites is approximately 270oC. The technology and concept is not new. France has the Soultz project which is considered the most advanced HDR Geothermal project in the world. Geothermal energy uses proven binary power plants and proven drilling techniques used everyday in the mining industry. What has kick started this project is SA and NSW’s recognition of HDR by granting Geothermal Exploration Licences and the Government's Renewable Energy (Electricity) Act 2000.

Geodynamics economic modelling suggests it can produce power from a 13MWe demonstration plant at around $63MW/h. This is cheaper than wind, and has simular infrastructure costs. A scaled up plant of 275MW/h is suggested to produce power at a cost of $40MW/h which is the first load based Zero emissions renewable energy source to rival the cost of conventional fossil fuels.

Home Page
http://www.geodynamics.com.au/IRM/content/

Origin Energy Invests in Geodynamics
06 Aug 2003
http://www.originenergy.com.au/news/news_detail.php?pageid=82&newsid=282

About Hot Dry Rocks
http://www.metasource.com.au/NR/exeres/D67CE5F4-C817-4E17-85BC-3C441635D4EC,frameless.htm

ANU Hot Rock Energy Links
http://hotrock.anu.edu.au/aus_links.htm

South Australian Electricity Generation
(Beyond Logic site)

http://www.beyondlogic.org/southaustraliapower/#HDR

Regards TG