250-3000 Savage brass...anyone have any I could buy?

So you block me and we can't communicate? Sad!

Hello to the board.
Any 7mm STW shooters here?
Any good loads for it.
I have been playing around and I found a very stable accurate load
I shoot a Ruger #1 with a 9 1/2 twist barrel. I tried some different bullets and powder but I found that with this gun
using Berger VLD hunter 168 grain large mag match primers and 75 grains Reloader 22 is amazing in this gun. I hope to drop an elk this weekend with it.

Are you licensed to reload that ammo?

Alarm raised over treaty provision to ban activity

April 21, 2009
By Bob Unruh
WorldNetDaily

President Obama, who supported the handgun ban in Washington, D.C., before it was tossed by the Supreme Court, since his election has watched various proposals to ban "assault" weapons, require handgun owners to submit to mental health evaluations and sparked a rush on ammunition purchases that caused some retailers to name him their salesman of the year. Now he apparently is going after citzens who reload their ammunition.

It was during an official visit earlier this month to Mexico that he affirmed his support for a proposed international treaty that addresses "firearms trafficking."

According to a blogger who follows the issue, the treaty was adopted by President Clinton years ago but never ratified by the U.S. Senate, a goal Obama now has adopted.

The answer is finally here to the real reason why guns and church must mix!

The writer, B.A. Lawson, says, "If you reload your own ammo you may find yourself engaged in 'Illicit Manufacturing' of ammunition under an arms control treaty that President Obama started pushing last week in Mexico."

"Virtually everyone who supports the 2nd Amendment or has an interest in firearms has heard the numerous recent reports of ammunition shortages. The shortages have extended to reloading supplies that many folks rely on to keep their shooting costs down or to assemble exotic or hard to find ammunition. Many shooters have considered reloading their own ammo as insurance against limited supplies should legislation be enacted that would make ammo more scarce or dramatically more expensive," the blogger continued.

"Those thoughts may be in vain if the current administration is successful in getting the 'INTER-AMERICAN CONVENTION AGAINST THE ILLICIT MANUFACTURING OF AND TRAFFICKING IN FIREARMS, AMMUNITION, EXPLOSIVES, AND OTHER RELATED MATERIALS' treaty passed."

The treaty defines "illicit manufacturing" as "the manufacture or assembly of firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials."

It then gives authority for that activity only with "a license from a competent governmental authority of the State Party where the manufacture or assembly takes place."

"The section … clearly identifies ammo reloaders that are not licensed by the government as 'Illicit Manufacturers' of ammunition. Now that we have reloaders properly labeled, lets move down to Article IV to see what we should do with them," the commentary said.

He then quotes Article IV, which states, "State Parties that have not yet done so shall adopt the necessary legislative or other measures to establish as criminal offenses under their domestic law the illicit manufacturing of and trafficking in firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials."

"This is pretty straightforward. If you reload ammunition without a license after the treaty is signed you will be a criminal," Lawson wrote.

The National Rifle Association said the treaty "does include language suggesting that it is not intended to restrict 'lawful ownership and use' of firearms. Despite those words, the NRA knows that anti-gun advocates will still try to use this treaty to attack gun ownership in the U.S."

The treaty is available online.

At the SnowflakesinHell blog, the writer said there's no mistaking the language.

Even accessories "which can be attached to a firearm" are targeted.

"It would presumably also ban home manufacture of these items without a government license. Do you own trigger jobs? Reload your own ammunition? Not any more, not without a government license!"

The Examiner.com said such international gun restrictions are unacceptable.

John Velleco, director of federal affairs for Gun Owners of America, notes the benefits for Obama of having such rules in treaties, not legislation.

"If ratified and the U.S. is found not to be in compliance with any provisions of the treaty – such as a provision that would outlaw reloading ammunition without a government license – President Obama would be empowered to implement regulations without congressional approval," he wrote.

"If the kind of 'change' that Obama wants is for the United States to take its marching orders from third world countries regarding our gun rights, we're in big trouble!"

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=95733

.<font color=#ff4500>*** RED ALERT - ACTION NEEDED ***

Proposed “Safety” Regulations Would Dry Up Ammunition Sales

Tuesday, July 03, 2007

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has proposed new rules that would have a dramatic effect on the storage and transportation of ammunition and handloading components such as primers or black and smokeless powder. The proposed rule indiscriminately treats ammunition, powder and primers as “explosives.” Among many other provisions, the proposed rule would:

* Prohibit possession of firearms in commercial “facilities containing explosives”—an obvious problem for your local gun store.
* Require evacuation of all “facilities containing explosives”—even your local Wal-Mart—during any electrical storm.
* Prohibit smoking within 50 feet of “facilities containing explosives.”

It’s important to remember this is only a proposed rule right now, so there’s still time for concerned citizens to speak out before OSHA issues its final rule. The National Rifle Association, National Shooting Sports Foundation, and Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute will all be commenting on these proposed regulations, based on the severe effect these regulations (if finalized) would have on the availability of ammunition and reloading supplies to safe and responsible shooters.

The public comment period was originally scheduled to end July 12 but has been extended sixty (60) days until September 10, 2007. To read the OSHA proposal click here (PDF file).

According to OSHA, you may submit comments, identified by Docket No. OSHA-2007- 0032, by any of the following methods:

* Electronically: You may submit comments and attachments electronically at http://www.regulations.gov, which is the Federal eRulemaking Portal. Follow the instructions on-line for making electronic submissions.

* Fax: If your comments, including attachments, do not exceed 10 pages, you may fax them to the OSHA Docket Office at (202) 693-1648.

* Mail, hand delivery, express mail, messenger or courier service: You must submit three copies of your comments and attachments to:
OSHA Docket Office, Docket No. OSHA-2007-0032
U.S. Department of Labor, Room N-2625
200 Constitution Avenue, NW.
Washington, DC 20210
telephone (202) 693-2350 (OSHA"s TTY number is (877) 889-5627).

Instructions: All submissions must include the Agency name and the docket number for this rule making (Docket No. OSHA-2007-0032). All comments, including any personal information you provide, are placed in the public docket without change and may be made available online at http://www.regulations.gov. Therefore, OSHA cautions you about submitting personal information such as social security numbers and birthdates.

For further information on submitting comments, plus additional information on the rule making process, see the SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION section of the OSHA proposal (PDF).

Sample Letter:

-----------------------------


OSHA Docket Office Docket No. OSHA-2007-0032 U.S. Department of Labor, Room N-2625 200 Constitution Ave., N.W. Washington, DC 20210

Re.: Docket No. OSHA-2007-0032 (Explosives—Proposed Rule)

Dear Sir or Madam:

I am writing in strong opposition to OSHA’s proposed rules on “explosives,” which go far beyond regulating true explosives. These proposed rules would impose severe restrictions on the transportation and storage of small arms ammunition—both complete cartridges and handloading components such as black and smokeless powder, primers, and percussion caps. These restrictions go far beyond existing transportation and fire protection regulations.

As a person who uses ammunition and components, I am very concerned that these regulations will have a serious effect on my ability to obtain these products. OSHA’s proposed rules would impose restrictions that very few gun stores, sporting goods stores, or ammunition dealers could comply with. (Prohibiting firearms in stores that sell ammunition, for example, is absurd—but would be required under the proposed rule.)

The proposed transportation regulations would also affect shooters’ ability to buy these components by mail or online, because shipping companies would also have great difficulty complying with the proposed rules.

There is absolutely no evidence of any new safety hazard from storage or transportation of small arms ammunition or components that would justify these new rules. I also understand that organizations with expertise in this field, such as the National Rifle Association, National Shooting Sports Foundation, and Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Association, will be submitting detailed comments on this issue. I hope OSHA will listen to these organizations’ comments as the agency develops a final rule on this issue.

Sincerely,


-----------------------------

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=3145

Be Loud & Proud, But Most All, BE HEARD!!!


... Gary

Metallic Cartridge Nomenclature

(How the .30-30, .30-06, and other favorites got their names)

By Chuck Hawks

Cartridge nomenclature has been haphazard at best, particularly in North America. Since the invention of self-contained ammunition, cartridges have been named in accordance with certain general customs in North America, Europe and the UK, but there have been many exceptions to these general rules. Here is how some of the common rifle and pistol cartridges got their names.

North American rifle and pistol cartridges

In the days of black powder, most North American centerfire metallic cartridges were described by their nominal caliber (the bore diameter of the barrel) and the powder charge they contained. Thus the .45-70 was a .45 caliber rifle cartridge that, in maximum loads, was powered by 70 grains of black powder. The .44-40 was a .44 caliber combination rifle and pistol cartridge charged with 40 grains of black powder.

Sometimes the bullet weight was added to the name, as in .45-70-405. That would be a .45-70 cartridge loaded with the standard 405 grain bullet. The .45-70-500 was the same cartridge loaded with a 500 grain bullet.

This basic system worked pretty well until the advent of smokeless powder. For while the energy per grain of different brands of black powder is essentially the same, smokeless powder can be manufactured in a nearly limitless number of variations. For example, the energy per grain of IMR 3031 powder is completely different than the energy per grain of Bullseye powder.

Early smokeless powder cartridges, such as the .30-30 Winchester and .30-40 Krag were, in fact, named following the old system. The .30-30 was originally loaded with 30 grains of the then new smokeless powder, and the Krag was loaded with 40 grains of smokeless.

However, it was soon realized that including the nominal powder charge in the name of smokeless powder cartridges was meaningless and potentially dangerous. So smokeless cartridges soon came to be named for their nominal bore diameter and the company that introduced them. This is how such familiar rifle cartridges as the .270 Winchester and .300 Savage were named. Sometime in the 1950's it became fashionable to name cartridges for the groove (or bullet) diameter. This is how the .308 Winchester (a .300 caliber cartridge by bore diameter) and .338 Winchester Magnum (a .330 cartridge by bore diameter) were named. Ditto the .357 Magnum revolver cartridge (a .35 caliber cartridge by bore diameter).

Today the groove diameter/bullet diameter is the most common method by which modern North American cartridges are named. The .243 WSSM, for example, has a groove diameter of .243" and uses .243" diameter bullets. Conversely, the .300 WSM was named for its bore diameter, just like the old .300 H&H Magnum of 1920. The Swedish .308 Norma Magnum was named in the North American fashion for its groove diameter.

Many cartridges have been named for neither their bore nor groove diameters. The .280 Remington has a bore diameter of .277" and a groove/bullet diameter of .284". And the .260 Remington has a bore diameter of .256" and a groove/bullet diameter of .264". Probably the names of these two cartridges were chosen because the sales people at Remington thought that customers would like even numbers like .260 and .280 better than less common numbers like .264 or .284. Along the same lines, the .340 Weatherby uses standard .338" bullets, and the .460 Weatherby uses standard .458" bullets.

When sales of the .280 languished, Remington tried changing its name to "7mm Express Remington." That name proved to be even less popular than .280, and Remington eventually reverted to the original ".280 Remington" moniker.

The bullet diameters of some popular cartridges are considerably overstated. The .380 ACP uses .355" bullets, the .38 Special uses .357" bullets, and the .44 Magnum uses .429" bullets. It is common to find the bullet diameter of pistol cartridges overstated.

One that is not overstated is the .41 Remington Magnum; its bullet diameter is actually .410. An oddity is the .38-40 Winchester, an old black powder cartridge that actually uses .40 caliber bullets, not .38 caliber bullets. It should have been called the ".40-40 Win."

A number of American cartridges since WW II have used metric designations for their bullet diameters. The cartridge that logically should have been named the ".280 Remington Magnum," since there was already a .280 Remington, was actually named the 7mm Remington Magnum, and went on to become the world's most popular magnum cartridge. When the fine .244 Remington didn't win customer acceptance under that name, it was renamed the "6mm Remington" and sales picked up.

A metric designation did not help the sales appeal of the cartridge that could have been called the ".32 Remington Magnum," (the original .32 Remington was introduced in the early years of the 20th Century), but was actually named the 8mm Remington Magnum. It has never caught on.

Winchester's first fat, short action, rebated rim cartridge was given a proper American name, .284 Winchester, but it never gained wide acceptance. In an attempt to capitalize on the cachet of a metric designation, the latest fat, short action, rebated rim Winchester cartridge that uses .284" bullets was introduced as the 7mm WSM. Only time will tell if this marketing ploy will be successful.

Other cartridges have been named in other ways. The famous .30-06 cartridge was designed for a .30 caliber bore and was adopted by the U.S. military in 1906. The 7mm-08 Remington has a 7mm bore and is based on a necked-down .308 case. The .25-06 has a .25 caliber bore and is based on a necked-down .30-06 case. These names reflect the cartridges' parentage.

Lou Palisano and Ferris Pindell designed the well known .22 and 6mm PPC bench rest cartridges; "PPC" stands for "Palisano-Pindell Cartridge." The .257 Roberts was introduced by Remington, but was named for its designer, Ned Roberts. The 7-30 Waters was designed by Ken Waters and introduced by Winchester. The .35 Whelen, standardized by Remington, got its name in a similar manner. The 7mm STW (for Shooting Times Westerner) was designed by Layne Simpson, a writer for Shooting Times magazine. All of these cartridges started life as wildcats and their names had become widely known before their standardization as factory loaded cartridges.

The .22-250 Varminter got its handle from J.E. Gebby, who trademarked the name ".22 Varminter" for his wildcat varmint cartridge back in the 1930's. Other wildcatters simply called it the .22-250 because it was based on a necked-down .250 Savage case. When Remington standardized the round in 1965 they added their name, calling it the .22-250 Remington. Lots of shooters still call the cartridge the Varminter, though.

The .250-3000 is a standard .25 caliber cartridge (bore diameter .250), and it was the first factory loaded cartridge to offer a muzzle velocity (MV) of 3000 fps. Its name is intended to both promote and capitalize on its high velocity. So was the name of the .220 Swift, actually designed by Winchester technicians, and the .224 Rocket from Weatherby. Other cartridges with names chosen to catch the attention of consumers (much like the names chosen for automobile models) include the .22 Hornet, .221 Fireball, .218 Bee, .219 Zipper, and the Remington Ultra Mag series of cartridges. One can only conclude that North Americans have shown a good deal of creativity in naming their cartridges.

European rifle and pistol cartridges

Meanwhile, in Europe, cartridges have generally been named for their nominal bore diameter and their case length in millimeters (rounded off). One millimeter equals 0.03937 inch. Thus "7x57" indicates a cartridge for a 7 millimeter (or approximately .276") bore with a case length of 57 millimeters. Our familiar .308 Winchester is called the 7.62x51 in Europe, and that is also its NATO military designation. It has a 7.62mm (or .300") bore diameter and a case 51mm long.

An "R" suffix indicates a rimmed case (i.e. 7x57R). Otherwise the case is assumed to be of rimless style. For example, 5.6x36R is the European designation for the American .22 Hornet, which has a rimmed case.

Sometimes the designer or company of origin is tacked onto the end, as in "6x62 Freres." The Germans added a "J" to the suffix of their 8mm Mauser round to indicate an infantry cartridge, which resulted in that cartridge being known as the 8x57J. Later an "S" was added to indicate the use of a new spitzer bullet in a cartridge originally loaded with a round nose bullet. Thus the "8x57JS" cartridge used in the Mauser 98 military rifle with which the Germans fought two World Wars.

The European system is basically reasonable, but they are actually not much better than the North Americans when it comes to accurately describing the bore of their rifles in the name of their cartridges. For example, the rifles for the original 8x57J Mauser cartridge actually used 7.9mm (.318") bullets. It wasn't until the advent of the 8x57JS cartridge that the 8mm Mauser adopted standard 8mm (.323") diameter bullets.

And Europeans have repeatedly described .22 caliber cartridges as both 5.56mm (as in the 5.56x45 NATO military cartridge) and 5.6mm (as in the 5.6x50 Magnum). Both use .224" bullets, the same as standard North American centerfire .22 cartridges.

Europeans often label .25 caliber cartridges (.250" bore and .256-.257" groove diameter) "6.5mm," which is actually .26 caliber (.256" bore and .264" groove diameter). The metric nomenclature for the .25-35 WCF, which uses standard .25 caliber (.257") bullets, is 6.5x52R. True 6.5mm cartridges, such as the 6.5x55 SE, use .264" bullets.

European handgun cartridges are likewise named for their bore diameter and case length. The famous 9x19mm pistol cartridge, which North Americans call the 9mm Luger, is a typical example.

British rifle cartridges

The British have their own somewhat unique system of cartridge identification. Like most American cartridges, British sporting rifle cartridges have been named for their bore diameter, and sometimes their groove or bullet diameter, usually followed by a manufacturers name.

They have also freely (and loosely) translated Continental European cartridges into their system. Thus the cartridge known the world over as the 7x57mm Mauser became the .275 Rigby in the UK, and rifles so marked are still turned out by the Rigby firm. These rifles shoot regular 7mm Mauser ammunition using .284" bullets. When the British appropriated the 9.5x57mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer cartridge they renamed it the .375 Rimless NE (2 1/4"). Holland's .244 Magnum actually uses standard 6mm (.243") bullets, as did their earlier .240 Magnum. The British seem to have been no more accurate in naming their cartridges than the Americans or Continental Europeans.

The term "Express" was often used to indicate higher than normal velocity, usually the product of a lighter bullet loaded in some established cartridge. The .577 Express (a black powder cartridge) would be one example.

When smokeless powder (Cordite or nitro powder to the British) became available, the word "Nitro" was added to the name of the earlier black powder express cartridges upon their conversion to the new propellant. The example in the paragraph above thus became the .577 Nitro Express when loaded with smokeless powder. "Nitro Express" is often abbreviated "NE."

Often the case length was included in the cartridge nomenclature, such as ".450 NE 3 1/4-inch." If that cartridge were necked-down to accept .40 caliber bullets it would become the .450/.400 NE 3 1/4-inch. Opposite from American practice, the British put the original cartridge size in front of the new size.

If a cartridge is available in both rimless and rimmed forms, the rimmed form is termed "flanged" and the rimless version "rimless." For example, the rimmed version of the famous .375 Belted Rimless Magnum (or .375 H&H Magnum) is called the .375 Flanged Magnum. The .375, by the way, is named for its groove diameter rather than its bore diameter.

Some British cartridges are known by more than one name, the .375 H&H mentioned in the paragraph above is one example. The .404 Jeffery is another, as this famous cartridge is also known in the UK as the .404 Rimless NE. Its case forms the basis, in much reduced length, for the Winchester WSM and WSSM lines of cartridges, and also the Remington Ultra Mag and Short Action Ultra Mag (SAUM) series.

British sporting rifle cartridge design was at its peak before the First World War. After the Second World War the British gun trade fell on hard times, due primarily to the dissolution of the British Empire and government interference. (The various socialist Labour Party governments have basically tried to stamp out the private ownership of firearms in the UK.) Kynoch, the British ammunition trust, stopped loading commercial ammunition in the 1960's. Most of the famous British African cartridges became obsolete, and the introduction of new cartridges practically ceased after the 1955 debut of the .244 Holland & Holland Magnum Belted Rimless, which failed to attract an international following.

But not entirely. In 1988 Holland and Holland partnered with Americans Jim Bell and William Feldstein to introduce the .700 Nitro Express cartridge and rifles in which to shoot it. Rigby introduced a new .450 Rigby cartridge in 1995, and in 2003 Holland & Holland announced a pair of new big bore cartridges, the .400 H&H Magnum Belted Rimless and the .465 H&H Magnum Belted Rimless. The name Kynoch has been resurrected and ammunition is once again being loaded for many of the classic British Nitro Express rifle cartridges in the UK. Thankfully, and unexpectedly, there appears to have been at least a modest resurgence of the British firearms and ammunition industry.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/cartridge_names.htm

NOTE: This guy has a pretty neat site.

Also posted on the GUNS board.

Weapon Measurement Conversion Chart

Compiled by David R. Haugh
Oregon, USA

Examples:

* A 6.35mm Italian carbine of WWII would equal a .25 caliber weapon.

* An American 8 inch caliber howitzer would equal 203.19mm.

Metric Measurement 	English/US Inch Measurement 
 5.40 mm 	        .213 
 5.50 mm 	        .217 
 5.56 mm 	        .225 
 6.00 mm 	        .236 
 6.35 mm 	        .250 
 6.55 mm 	        .258 
 7.00 mm 	        .276 
 7.62 mm 	        .300 
 7.65 mm 	        .301 
 7.70 mm 	        .303 
 7.92 mm 	        .312 
 8.00 mm 	        .315 
 8.40 mm 	        .331 
 9.00 mm 	        .354 
 9.50 mm 	        .374 
 Metric Measurement 	English/US Inch Measurement 
 10.00 mm 	        .394 
 10.50 mm 	        .412 
 10.60 mm 	        .417 
 11.00 mm 	        .433 
 12.00 mm 	        .472 
 12.50 mm 	        .492 
 12.70 mm 	        .500 
 13.00 mm 	        .512 
 13.40 mm 	        .528 
 14.40 mm 	        .567 
 14.80 mm 	        .583 
 15.25 mm 	        .600 
 15.40 mm 	        .606 
 16.40 mm 	        .646 
 17.40 mm 	        .685 
 Metric Measurement 	English/US Inch Measurement 
 18.40 mm 	        .724 
 20.00 mm 	        .803 
 21.40 mm 	        .843 
 23.40 mm 	        .921 
 25.00 mm 	        .984 
 37.00 mm 	        1.457 
 47.00 mm 	        1.850 
 57.00 mm 	        2.244 
 60.00 mm 	        2.362 
 65.00 mm 	        2.559 
 75.00 mm 	        2.953 
 76.00 mm 	        2.992 
 76.19 mm 	        3.000 
 77.00 mm 	        3.031 
 81.00 mm 	        3.189 
 Metric Measurement 	English/US Inch Measurement 
 83.81 mm 	        3.300 
 88.00 mm 	        3.465 
 90.00 mm 	        3.543 
 93.97 mm 	        3.700 
 100.00 mm 	        3.937 
 105.00 mm 	        4.134 
 106.67 mm 	        4.200 
 114.29 mm 	        4.500 
 120.00 mm 	        4.724 
 126.99 mm 	        5.000 
 150.00 mm 	        5.906 
 152.39 mm 	        6.000 
 155.00 mm 	        6.102 
 180.00 mm 	        7.087 
 203.19 mm 	        8.000 
 Metric Measurement 	English/US Inch Measurement 
 210.00 mm 	        8.268 
 220.00 mm 	        8.661 
 233.67 mm 	        9.200 
 240.00 mm 	        9.449 
 320.00 mm 	        12.598 
 420.00 mm 	        16.535

.<font color=#b22222>Dear Veterans, Thank You & God Bless!

I wasn't riding the day I took the pic.

But I don't have any leathers anyway.

LOL

Phil

Welcome To Our Board PW! Good point, however, most re-loaders collect their brass, and I would think they would be the ones who are most likely to use mercury primers.

BTW, any and all matters that concern hand loading, or re-loading are welcome here. Of course, just stopping by to say hi or chat a wee bit is not out of line either.

Out, where's the leathers?

Scrounging brass...

This probably doesn't apply these days.

Modern primers no longer use mercury. Old primers did. Mercury combines chemically with brass. It makes it brittle and weak.

Black powder burned so dirty, the fouling reduced the reaction between the mercury and the brass. Smokeless powder, burning cleaner and hotter, facilitates the reaction.

Mercury primers were discontinued decades ago. However, some match ammunition continued using mercury primers for many years after. Match ammunition and target shooting at ranges seems like a natural marriage. To my thinking, a range is the most likely place to find mercury primed brass.

Something to think about.

Cheers, PW.

I got a Kawasaki Concours Gary.

Here is a pic of me with the bike:



I've been upgrading it a little.

New seat and lowering arm.

The thing is a little too tall for me.

The lowering arm should be here any day.

Phil

Good Morning Phil. I pick up brass at the range when it's there, and I pick up whatever else I can when I'm shooting outdoors, sometimes I get lucky and find a nice selection when I go to the mountain; there are a lot of thoughtless litter bugs shooting these days.

Oh well, at least I get some brass out of it. What I don't reload, a local hand loader will buy from me. I haven't sold him any brass as of yet, but I have seen others selling to him when I was there buying some custom stuff this guy. He's very, very good, and quite affordable. He loads for the local F.B.I and a few local police stations around town; they do a lot of target practice.

You got a motorcycle??? Wow, I'm jealous... Congrats! <thumb up>

What did you get?

Morning Gary.

I bought a five gallon bucket of .40 brass off of Ebay a couple of years ago but that's as far as I've gotten.

Still hankering for a Dillon press but other things have been taking my "spare" money.

Like my motorcycle.

Good luck,
Phil

Thanks Phil, I'm hoping to get a chronograph for measuring velocity and such soon. This way I really get a handle on reloading, but I think I have enough to keep me busy while I get going. I've been collecting brass for a couple of years now, and now I have my tumbler and a good supply of cleaning media. I also have new brass, bullets, and powder to get me going as well.

Target Hunter,

Gary

WTG Gary.

Sounds like you have a great start on getting your loading station set up.

Have fun,
Phil

Checking In - Workstation Continues:

I finished building my new reloading-bench/work-station today; the first one that my friend and I had built has been good target practice throughout this last summer. The bench was a wee bit wobbly; I was in a lot of pain when it was built, and my friend meant well with his help in cutting all the lumber for the project, but he does not put much faith in the term square. Sometimes it is best to just let things go, wait a bit, and then slowly replace the offending item. I can, and have built a new bench, but I did not want to lose and try to rebuild a new best friend.

Anyways, the new bench is done, and it is pretty damn tough. I didn’t use any 2x4 on it, I used only 2x6, and some bracing with 2x8. I used two, 2x6 pieces glued and screwed together for the legs; now all that I left to do is to cut a one-piece top out of the ¾ in. sheet of black medite (super compressed wood & glue, covered on both sides by vinyl) that I have had in the garage/shop that I bought last year. I’m going to glue it down to the bench (3/4 in. Plywood) with a layer of Liquid Nails, and with wood screws that will only penetrate the new top from the bottom, and only half the way into the new sheet.

After securing the new top, I’ll put some trim on the left side, and front of the bench that will set a 1/8 above the benches top. With that done, I will bolt the bench to the right hand walls studs, and again to the back walls studs, this will give me one supper strong and secure bench. I hope to finish this new workstation by the end of the winter, and then start hand loading next spring. I have four banks of two-tube fluorescent lights above the workbench. I will have three shelves above the bench, and I placed double stacked machinists toolbox that I have loaded with supplies on the immediate left of the workbench, this will give me a good work station with most of my needs easily accessible. I’m really looking forward to finally getting started next spring, this all has taken a lot longer than I had planned, but school and a wobbly first bench set me back a bit.

Only thing left for me to make up my mind on the placement of my loader and vice; I’m thinking of making a cutout in my bench for inter-changeable plates that contain the loader, vice, and whatever else I wish to use on that bench. In this way, I can use the new station for many things, and slide the units with their plate onto a shelf and out of the way when not in use. I’m still working on this idea, but I grow more and more found of it as time goes by, it will most likely be a feature, LOL!


Target Hunter,

Gary

OT: More Remembrance…

Long but worthy:

http://gunstuff.com/america-attacked.html



Least We Forget,

… Gary

OT: In Remembrance...

Still the best IMO:

http://unkarock.addr.com/unkarock/flag.htm


Least We Forget,

Gary

HARR!!!

I wasn't reading accurately and noticed your 3" group at a hundred and thought I'd throw the gun away that had that loose of a group. Then I realized you were doing it with a hand gun. OK now I'm impressed:)

Thanks George, I just copied/sent that to a file in my folders here on iH.

I reload for .44 rem. magnum, big guy. For target (low recoil) I use 6.5 grains of Unique and a 240 grain lead SWC bullet. My wife enjoys shooting these, but not the hunting loads below.

For hunting I like to load a Sierra 240 grain soft point and use 23 grains of H 110. You would need to work up a load for your gun. Start with a series from the lowest load recommended to the highest, and see which groups the best from a bench rest. THis load groups about 3 inches at 100 yards out of my Dan Wesson (10 inch barrel).

I'm just checking in; I'm working on my bench, I should be loading soon. I'd appreciate any and all the personal favorite recipes for the .44 Remington Magnum.

Updated I-Box. EOM

From the hills and valleys of southcentral PA, best wishes for a happy new year to all my friends and fellow posters on IHUB. May the new year bring you fame, fortune, and love. Well, at least one of the three.
George

A Card For iHub...

I even asked Matt to contact him and Matt never answered.

Phil

That is one of i-Hub's biggest mysteries. Bucky and I have tried every one of the e-mail addy's we had for him. They either come up as dead addy's or remain silent.

Speaking of Colt,

Has anyone heard from him at all?

Is he still among the living?

Phil

* <font color=#8a2be2>Welcome To Our Board Tinman!!! Yes he was, I have to give Colt some credit as that was hell of bomb and the dude came out of in good shape.

OT - Checking In: #msg-8294691.

Holy shit! One lucky guy.

Just for the record,

If it had been me doing the loading,

I would have switched to a slower burning powder when changing calibers so there would be little chance of double charging.

But that's just me.

Have fun,
Phil

WOW! <font color=#dc143c>Handloaders Beware:

Colt Anaconda, .44 Magnum in stainless steel - $1000
Millett Red-Dot sight- - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - $120
It explode in your hands without getting hurt - - Priceless!!!

Note: Story Below!










The Story Behind It All:

29-JAN-2005

Greetings all.

A shooter for 10 years, I'm a relatively new reloader having purchased a Dillon RL550B about a year ago. To date, I've made and shot perhaps 3000 rounds without incident. Recently, however, I learned a most valuable lesson from what could have been a life-altering experience. I'll share this first-hand account with you hoping to educate reloaders and shooters about the potential dangers of our sport. I realize that this incident was most likely caused by inexperience and carelessness, so there's no need point it out :)

I was the proud owner of a Colt Anaconda 6-inch .44 magnum with a nice red-dot sight. Reloading was the only way I could afford to shoot it on a regular basis. Several days ago, I was at the indoor range terrorizing unsuspecting sheets of paper as I usually do: mostly .45ACP's through my 1911 and an occasional cylinder or two with the Anaconda.

Both guns were shooting great. About 30 minutes into the evening's activities, I once again load up the revolver and step to the line. First shot was a bullseye, as was typical for this rig. Second shot - KABOOM. I felt an unbelievable recoil and was pelted all over my face, chest and arms by fragments of metal and glass. An incredible pressure wave stunned me as if I were punched in the head. I shook it off and looked around. The scope was on the floor. The gun was still in my hand, but didn't look as it did mere seconds ago. A friend rushed over and with clear presence of mind, checked me for injuries. Whew. I emerge without so much as a scratch. Miraculous, considering what just happened. The shooting stall contained the flying shrapnel. Approved safety glasses, without a doubt, saved my vision. Long sleeves, a cap and good ear protection also prevented certain injury. I hate to say it, but dumb luck played a part as well.

At this point I gather up the pieces and attempt to make sense of this catastrophe. It's not good. My second shot violently exploded, splitting the cylinder into three pieces and causing chambers one, two and three to be blown wide open. The shock caused a chain reaction, immediately setting off rounds three and four. The bullet from round three was recovered on the floor near my feet. It was severely mangled because it's exit path was partially blocked by the frame of the gun. Unsupported by the cylinder, the brass case blew open as if it were made of paper. Luckily, both bullet and case didn't fragment too badly and perforate surrounding humans, including me. Round four went off cleanly down range, though not through the barrel. Round five was somewhat damaged - the bullet was pressed into the case by about one-eight of an inch. A little more and it may have detonated as well. Round six was in perfect condition.

The rest of the gun was equally distorted. The top strap was nearly separated from the frame. Seams between the various metal parts were wide and uneven. I thought "Damn, it's completely destroyed".

Here's where my education begins: Lacking any sophisticated test instruments, the load I was using felt comparable to any factory ammo I had used in the past. 9.0gr of Titegroup behind a 240gr SJSP. This was 10% below the maximum load as published in the Hogdon manual. It shot with consistent accuracy and was economical because it was the same powder as I had used in the .45. I now realize my quest to economize reloading may well prove to be the source of this misfortune.

Titegroup is a very fast, clean powder requiring low charge weights for large calibers. Prior to this event, I reasonably assumed this to be an ideal situation. Less powder, less fouling, less cost = more trips to the range. That is until you realize a few things. 9.0gr in a .44 magnum case is, more or less, a drop in a bucket. In subsequent tests I've recently performed, it's all too possible to double charge a round and have it go unnoticed in a progressive loader. That is not to say that I've been loading with a casual attitude. I cannot, for the life of me, recall a moment of distraction where I could have possibly doubled one up. Nevertheless, I now own several fragments of stainless steel that were once a finely crafted firearm. Happily, none of those bits are lodged in my forehead. For all those interested, you can view high resolution photographs of the beast's mortal remains here.

It is my hope that sharing this horror story will inspire folks to take an extra bit of care while enjoying their sport. I've since sent the gun to Colt for expert analysis. While it's my speculation that a double charged round caused this, perhaps a post-mortem by the factory will render an alternative conclusion. Unlikely as it may seem, I'll post an update if the latter is true.

Note: 1-MAR-2005 UPDATE

I spent a good half-hour on the phone with the Colt engineer that performed the post-mortem. Their metallurgical tests showed no problems with the grain structure or hardness of the steel. In a nutshell, the gun was not defective. Unfortunately, Colt would not officially speculate on the cause of the failure. Off the record, the engineer did say it was most likely a double charge.

Source: http://iris.nyit.edu/~bithead/anaconda/story.html

It should be here Friday:

Lee 4 Hole Turret Press Deluxe Reloading Kit with Auto Index



The Lee 4 Hole Turret Press is a proven spring-free design with compound leverage. The turret is locked into a solid steel ring with big rifle bolt type lugs. Patented design puts the lugs on the circumference so there can be no tipping. The linkage is so powerful that the largest magnum cases are sized with little effort. Features built-in primer catcher, long stroke, generous hand clearance and a comfortable wood grip. The fourth hole allows you to install your Lee Factory Crimp Die or Taper Crimp Die in the press. Purchase extra turrets and never remove the dies. Simply lift out the entire turret and replace with the next caliber. Deluxe Kit includes: Turret Press with Auto Index, Auto Disk Powder Measure, Safety Scale, Primer Pocket Cleaner, Cutter and Lock Stud and Chamfer Tool.

It's About Time, HARR!!!

I did my way, I bought most every tool and supply before I bought the press, I should have most everything I need now to load the .44 Magnum & .45 Colt and the .357 Magnum and .38 Special.

Also posted on GUNS.

Reloading Safely

The Basic Rules for Reloading Safely

Introduction

Most reloaders handload because it is interesting, less expensive than shooting factory loads and because they can often develop more accurate loads for specific guns. The NRMA wants you to enjoy this hobby safely and this leaflet provides some basic rules observed by all top-notch reloaders. Obviously, it is not a reloading manual. You are urged to read all available books on reloading. Go to demonstrations, talk to experienced handloaders. Make yourself as knowledgeable as you can.

Basic Reloading Precautions

1. Modern ammunition uses smokeless powder as the energy source. Smokeless powder is much more powerful than black powder or Pyrodex®. Never substitute smokeless powder for black powder or Pyrodex® and never mix it with either.

2. Follow loading recommendations exactly. Don't substitute components for those listed. Start loading with the minimum powder charge in the loads shown.

3. Never exceed manufacturers' reloading data. Excess pressures caused by excessive loads could severely damage a firearm and cause serious injury or death.

4. Understand what you are doing and why it must be done in a specific way.

5. Stay alert when reloading. Don't reload when distracted, disturbed or tired.

6. Set up a loading procedure and follow it. Don't vary your sequence of operations.

7. Set up your reloading bench where powder and primers will not be exposed to heat, sparks or flame.

8. DO NOT smoke while reloading.

9. ALWAYS wear safety glasses while reloading.

10. Keep everything out of the reach of small children.

11. Keep your reloading bench clean and uncluttered. Label components and reloads for easy identification.

12. Do not eat while handling lead.

13. NEVER try to dislodge a loaded cartridge that has become stuck in the chamber by impacting it with a cleaning rod. Have a competent gunsmith remove the round.

Smokeless Powder

All smokeless powders obviously have to burn very fast, but handgun and shotgun powders must burn faster than rifle powders. You will readily note the differences in physical size and shape of various powders, but you cannot see differences in chemical composition that help to control the rate of burning. Burn rate is also affected by pressure. "Hot primers," seating the bullet too deep, overcrimping the case on the bullet, tight gun chambers, oversize bullets, use of heavy shot loads and anything that increases friction or confinement of the powder will increase the pressure. Obviously this hobby requires attention to detail, patience and meticulousness to insure the safety and quality of loads produced.

Powder Warnings

1. NEVER mix powders of different kinds.

2. Use the powder ONLY as recommended in manufacturer reloading manuals.

3. Store powder in cool, dry place.

4. If you throw or measure powder charges by volume, check-weigh the charges every time you begin loading, occasionally during loading and when you finish.

5. Pour out only enough powder for the immediate work.

6. NEVER substitute smokeless powder for black powder or Pyrodex®.

7. Don't carry powder in your clothing. Wash your hands thoroughly after handling it.

8. Store powders only in original package. Don't repackage.

9. Keep powder containers tightly closed when not in use.

10. Specific powders are designed for specific uses. Don't use them for other purposes.

11. Smokeless powder is EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE. To dispose of deteriorated powders, follow recommendations in The Properties and Storage of Smokeless Powder ­ SAAMI Reprint #376-2500, which is published in some reloading guides or available from NRMA.

12. Empty the powder measure back into the original powder container when through with a reloading session. DO NOT MIX POWDERS.

13. Clean up spilled powder with brush and dust pan; do not use a vacuum cleaner because fire or explosion may result.

Primers

Priming materials differ in brisance (initial explosive force) and in the amount of hot gas produced. Don't mix primers of different makes.

1. Don't decap live primers. Fire them in the appropriate gun ­ then decap.

2. Don't ream out or enlarge the flash hole in primer pockets. This can increase chamber pressure.

3. Over-ignition creates higher gun pressures. The best results are obtained by using the mildest primer consistent with good ignition.

4. Don't use primers you can't identify. Ask your local police or fire department to dispose of unidentifiable or nonserviceable primers.

5. Keep primers in the original packaging until used. Return unused primers to the same package. Don't dump together and store in bulk. There is a risk of mass detonation if one is ignited.

6. If resistance to seating or feeding of primers is felt, STOP and investigate. DO NOT FORCE PRIMERS.

7. Store primers in a cool, dry place. High temperature, such as in a summer attic, causes them to deteriorate.

8. Don't handle primers with oily or greasy hands. Oil contamination can affect ignitability.

9. There have been instances of "primer dusting" in the tubes of loading tools because of vibration. Clean the machines after each use.

10. Refer to SAAMI reprint SPORTING AMMUNITION PRIMERS: Properties, Handling & Storage for Handloading. If you don't have one, write NRMA.

Handling Lead

Lead, a substance known to cause birth defects, reproductive harm and other serious physical injury, must be handled with extreme care. Handle lead bullets or lead shot only in a well ventilated area and ALWAYS wash hands after handling lead and before eating. Discharging firearms in poorly ventilated areas, cleaning firearms, or handling ammunition also may result in exposure to lead. Have adequate ventilation at all times.

Handloading Rifle & Pistol Cartridges

1. Examine cases before loading. Discard any that are not in good condition.

2. Put labels on boxes of loaded cartridges. Identify caliber, primer, powder and charge, bullet and weight, and date of reloading.

3. In handgun cartridges, the seating depth of the bullet is extremely important. Handgun powders must burn very quickly because of the short barrel. They are sensitive to small changes in crimp, bullet hardness, bullet diameter, primer brisance and especially to bullet seating depth.

4. Check the overall length of the cartridge to be sure the bullet is seated properly.*

5. If you cast your own bullets, remember their hardness, diameter and lubrication affect the ballistics.

6. Plastic cases designed for practice loads (where the bullet is propelled by primer gas only) can't be used for full powder loads.

7. Consult manufacturer regarding disposal of unserviceable ammunition. Ask your local police or fire department to dispose of small quantities.

*Accumulation of lead or grease in the bullet seating tool may force the bullet in too far. If the bullet isn't seated deeply enough, it may engage the lands of the barrel when loaded. This will increase the chamber pressure.

Reloading Shotgun Shells

1. Select cases that are in good condition. Be sure base wad is intact and the shells are of the same brand and type. Discard any with split mouths.

2. Check the powder bushing to be sure it is correct for the powder weight recommended. Check-weigh thrown powder charges.

3. Check shot bushing for shot charge weight.

4. Shotshell wads differ in their sealing ability. Use the load combination specified in the reloading guide.

5. FOR YOUR SAFETY, PLEASE NOTE: YOU CANNOT substitute STEEL, BUFFERED LEAD SHOT or BISMUTH SHOT in loads recommended for LEAD SHOT ONLY. To load steel or Bismuth shot or add buffer materials to lead shot, you MUST use different components, and follow EXACTLY the instructions provided by recognized authorities.

Prevent Missing & Double Charges

1. It is easy to double charge if you are momentarily distracted. Use a depth gauge to check powder height in a shell. A piece of doweling rod can be used as a depth gauge.

2. Observe the powder level of cases placed in the loading block. This is a way to discover any cases with missing or double powder charges.

3. Take care to operate progressive loaders as the manufacturer recommends. Don't back up the turret or jiggle the handle. Don't use a shell to catch the residue when cleaning out the powder train.

http://www.reload-nrma.com/basic-rules.html

I'm thinking about this:



The Lock-N-Load Classic™ is the only single-stage press to feature quick change dies. If you reload more than one caliber and want the ease and simplicity of a single-stage press, you want Hornady’s Lock-N-Load Classic. The Lock-N-Load Bushings make changing calibers with a single-stage press faster and easier than ever before. Switch from one die to another with just a quick twist, no screwing and unscrewing dies or die adjustments are needed. With the Lock-N-Load Classic, you’ll load more shells in less time than ever before.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

A friend of my mothers has the classic for sale for $80.00, it's only $122.70 less than new, nut he has only loaded two hundred shells with it. The guy's in need as he has just been laid off. I'd like it, but I'm thinking $60.00, any thoughts and opinions would be appreciated.

The Auto Primer Feed shown in photo is sold separately, but he's throwing that in.

Damn Near Ready To Jump,

Gary

-<font color=red>>>></font> Alliant Powder Product Recall

July 6, 2005

Product description: Unique® smokeless powder, LOT numbers 850, 859, 861, 868, 872, 876, 890, 898 and 907.

Warning:
Alliant Powder has determined a very small number of eight pound (8 lb.) Alliant Powder Unique“ smokeless powder containers may contain Alliant Powder Bullseye“ smokeless powder.

LOADING BULLSEYE“ SMOKELESS POWDER INTO ROUNDS OF AMMUNITION IN WHICH THE RECIPE CALLS FOR UNIQUE“ SMOKELESS POWDER MAY RESULT IN HIGH PRESSURE LOADS AND SUBSEQUENT GUN DAMAGE OR PERSONAL INJURY.

If you are in possession of an eight pound (8 lb.) bottle of Alliant Powder Unique“ with any of the above noted lot numbers, please immediately cease use of this product and notify Alliant Powder by calling 800-276-9337 or emailing reloading@alliantpowder.com

Lot numbers are located on the bottom of each bottle.

http://alliantpowder.com/recall.php

Lest We Forget, Memorial Day:

From Marcy Zitz

THE FACTS

Date of Memorial Day

Memorial Day Observed:
2004: Mon, May 31
2005: Mon, May 30
2006: Mon, May 29
2007: Mon, May 28
Memorial Day is observed on the last Monday in May
Memorial Day Traditional Date:
2004: Sun, May 30
2005: Mon, May 30
2006: Tue, May 30
2007: Wed, May 30

Reason We Celebrate Memorial Day:
A day of remembrance for those who have died in our nation's service.

History of the Memorial Day Holiday (U.S):
· Originally called Decoration Day
· Memorial Day Holiday was officially proclaimed on May 5, 1868 by General John Logan, national commander of the Grand Army of the Republic
· Memorial Day first observed on May 30, 1868
· Congress changed the observed Memorial Day date in 1968 to the last Monday in May to ensure a three day weekend. There is a movement to change Memorial Day observances back to the official day.

More information About Memorial Day:
http://www.usmemorialday.org/
Information from the History Channel: www.historychannel.com2Fmemorialday%2F

Formal Observance of Memorial Day:

· Wear a red poppies on Memorial day to honor those who died serving the United States during war
· At 3 p.m. local time on Memorial Day, Americans should pause for a moment of silence or listen to "Taps"
· Visit cemeteries and place flags or flowers on the graves of veterans for Memorial Day
· Visit a memorial
· Attend a Memorial Day parade to honor fallen heroes

Informal Observance of Memorial Day:

· Family and friends get together for a Picnic for Memorial Day
· Memorial Day is unofficial kick-off of summer season

http://familyinternet.about.com/cs/memorialday/a/aamemorialday_p.htm

With All Due Respect & Love!

Gary

A Memorial Day Prayer

By Rev. Dick Kozelka (ret)
First Congregational Church of Minnesota
Minneapolis, MN.

Eternal God,
Creator of years, of centuries,
Lord of whatever is beyond time,
Maker of all species and master of all history --
How shall we speak to you
from our smallness and inconsequence?
Except that you have called us to worship you
in spirit and in truth;
You have dignified us with loves and loyalties;
You have lifted us up with your lovingkindnesses.
Therefore we are bold to come before you without groveling
[though we sometimes feel that low]
and without fear
[though we are often anxious].
We sing with spirit and pray with courage
because you have dignified us;
You have redeemed us from the aimlessness
of things' going meaninglessly well.
God, lift the hearts of those
for whom this holiday is not just diversion,
but painful memory and continued deprivation.
Bless those whose dear ones have died
needlessly, wastefully [as it seems]
in accident or misadventure.
We remember with compassion those who have died
serving their countries
in the futility of combat.
There is none of us but must come to bereavement and separation,
when all the answers we are offered
fail the question death asks of each of us.
We believe that you will provide for us
as others have been provided with the fulfillment of
"Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted."

http://www.usmemorialday.org/prayer.html

My Thanks To All Veterans!

Thanks TH!

I have a few pounds of corncob medium to use up before trying anything else, Gary. So far, it has done a good job. I use Lyman Turbocharger to reactivate the stuff when it needs it.

Q - What is the best media for cleaning brass? I have been given a lot of answers, but Walnut Shell and the newer Ceramic are the two I hear the most positive things about. Does anybody here any suggestions for me??

What about cleaning agents? I've heard a lot of horror stories concerning this issue. However, I have been told that pre-treated walnut shell is way cool. What say you???


TIA... Gary

Too Good To Pass Up!

CheaperThanDirt.com just got me, This was just too good to pass up, and it's a brand name that's known for qaulity, RCBS! I ordered:


Vibratory Case Cleaner, 120V

Fast, dry-media case cleaning at its base. The Vibratory Case Cleaner holds up to 550 .38 Special or 190 .30-06 cases. It has a removable lid that lets you check cases during cleaning.
Quiet, powerful motor is thermally protected, steel case and 1/4" thick bowl last a lifetime. 120V

Value: $154.88
Our Low Price: $60.90

Since I was there, and I needed to be above $150.00 to get Free S&H:


Ammo 7.62x25 Tokarev 70 Rd Box 85gr FMJ
Berdan Corrosive $8.49 x 6


Pistol Cartridges, .44 Remington Magnum, 240 Grains,
Short Jacketed Soft Point, 50 Rounds Per Box,

(No Pic)
PMC Unprimed Pistol Cases, .357 Magnum
(not the best price, but fair)

Re: Powders. I started reloading for both .38/357 and .44 mag with Unique and haven't changed for target loads. For deer hunting in my .44 mag, I use H110.

>>> New I-Box <<<

th,

I agree with you 100%.

The necked rifle cases are the ones that tend to stretch. The straight walled pistol and rifle cases should almost never need to be trimmed.

I'll bet the .357 Sig cases might need it from time to time though.

I would just get a set of calipers and if they are close I wouldn't worry about it.

Have fun,
Phil

Q - Powder? I'll be loading both the .357 & .44 Magnum. I'd appreciate any opinions you may have to offer.